Ian & Stuart's Australian Mac: Not for Sale/Another.not.for.sale (Australia).iso/fade into you/being there/How To & FAQ's/Online Conflict

Text File | 1994-11-11 | 26KB | 586 lines

Hi All

Thought I'd share this text with you all. It is xposted from Compuserve.

Maybe we can learn something here?! :-)

yours virtually,

Michael Ney

BTW the "mike" cited below is not me.

_____________________________________

RE: Handling On-line Conflicts

Fm:  Kate To: All

How do you handle conflict online?

In the analog world if you have a disagreement with someone there are all sorts
of ways of dealing with it. One can avoid the places where the person hangs out.
One can engage in a air clearing, nose to nose shouting match. Heck, you can even
let the air out of the jerk or jerkette's tires. But online is different, it
seems to me.

I can remember having an private exchange with someone about a public topic.
While the situation was "settled" I smarted from the misunderstanding for a long
time. I rarely responded to his messages, even about subjects I was interested
in. I felt very helpless to truly resolve my feelings. I am sure that the person
with whom I had the problem was totally oblivious to my concerns or thought the
situation over. I almost quit the system over it.

How do you resolve any online conflicts?  Do you attack, retreat, take it
private, keep it public.

-Kate-

Fm:  Linda W. To:  Kate

Kate, The last time someone was upset with me online, I was very hurt by it. I
had no idea what I had done. To this day, it still hurts, even though the other
individual and I have seemingly patched things up. The thing is, I don't really
know, because we've never discussed it. I tried at the time I became aware of the
problem to discuss it. I'm one of those people who likes to tackle things head on
and work them out, rather than letting them fester. I was willing to do whatever
it took to rectify the problem. I just needed to know what I had done in the
first place, so that I could fix things.

One thing I learned is that you can't force someone to talk online. The mistake I
made at that time was asking mutual friends to help me work it out. Things just
got worse instead of better. Since then, I've found I trust people less and keep
more to myself. I'm slowly getting over that, and I still value the people here,
and the opportunities to talk candidly, enough to try to put the past behind me.
- Linda

Fm:  Kate To:  Linda W.

Linda, would you have handled the situation any different in person than online?

I tend to avoid the confrontations. They are physically painful to me. I wonder
tho if I am not participating fully because of it. I envy some people who seem to
have the energy and ability to not walk away from any argument online. They reply
fully to every message, constantly reiterating their position... and sometimes
they come to an agreement of sorts.

I tend to stop writing. Maybe I'm a wimp.

-Kate-

Fm:  Linda W. To:  Kate

Kate, Well, on the message board, it's a little harder to just walk away. But,
when it's a /send conversation, it's easy for the other person to just log off. I
think that I probably chose the wrong time to try to talk about it, but I didn't
realize that at the time. I've been advised by someone very wise that I should
log off when I find myself overwrought about online problems. I've been trying to
do that, and I've had less problems because of it.

Still, I'm one for getting things into the open. I didn't used to be like that. I
grew up in a family where my dad stormed out of the house when he and my mother
disagreed. Nothing was ever really resolved. Things were always tense. When I
lived in a Christian commune, we had family meetings once a week. They were often
confrontational, and I learned from them. I also learned that there was no place
to hide in a house full of people. <G>  I remember one of my roommates tried
locking herself in the bathroom. One or two people went in and kept talking to
her through the door till she responded.

I drive my husband nuts now with wanting to talk things out. His way to deal with
being upset is to close himself in our room and curl up in a ball on the bed.
Mine response is to keep trying to get him to talk. When he finally does,
invariably things get better. It's hard to convince him to try talking first,
though. - Linda

Fm: James To:  Kate

Kate, Some people thrive on conflict. I remember once agreeing with a person word
for word once just to see what would happen. He attacked vigorously, stating in a
very long and eloquent posting how much and why he disagreed. I am one for
pleasure in life. Arguements have never been a favorite pasttime for me.

james k.


Fm: James To:  Linda W.

Linda, One of the most valuable benefits of both of these forums is that I have
found a very few people that I can tell anything to without fear of rebuke. That
is very valuable to me, I like it, and I won't jeopardize those relationships for
anything.

Hugs! james k.


Fm:  Mike M. To:  Linda W.

Dear Linda (and Kate and all):

Sorry to jump in on this thread so late, but something you said really hit home:
"...you can't force someone to talk online."  That's a part of online relating
that sometimes gives me some real problems.

When I get involved in conflict (offline as well as online) my reflex is to try
and get the person to talk with me right away so that I can address the problem
immediately. Here, I like doing that in real time... CO, or sometimes via
telephone if the relationship allows.

I've come to realize, though, that lots of people need a cooling-off period
first, and they may draw back or put some distance between themselves and me
until they feel comfortable in reopening the lines of communication. While I
respect that need, I only wish that I could react to it better than I've been
doing. When it involves someone whom I consider to be a good friend, the
disappearance of our usual friendliness is really painful.

Online, it's even worse because of the inherent non-emotional aspect of the
medium. Sometimes, it feels as though the person's terse Cmails or the
non-committal SENs in CO have icicles all over them. Intellectually, I know that
it's not as bad as I'm making it out to be ... but emotionally, it rips me up
inside.

On top of all that, I put myself through all sorts of mental gauntlets about what
I should do and what I should say (and how). Part of me often wants to press the
issue, clamor for them to break down and talk with me, and refuse to take "no"
for an answer. But then I'm assailed by thoughts of, "Well, that's just going to
make them angrier than they already are." So then I'll decide to not say anything
and let them make the first move, follow their lead. But then I start torturing
myself inside, wondering if they're still upset, wondering if they're more upset
because *I'm* not saying anything, and so on (we Catholics often have a long
habit of self-mortification!)

I suppose there's a happy medium in there someplace ... either that, or there's
some interpersonal yardstick that one can use to measure the degree of incentive
or aggressiveness that's needed on my part. So far, I've found neither, much to
my distress. So I usually end up getting quite depressed about it and doing a lot
of worrying and generally making myself quite miserable <grin>.

Well, thanks for letting me get that off my chest!

Hugs, Mike

Fm:  Linda W. To:  Mike M.

Mike, Thanks for sharing your feelings. I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets
all wrought up when things go wrong and I can't fix them. I'm still struggling
with trying to put the past difficulties in the past, because I still have no
idea what I did to upset my friend. I'm just glad that we are getting along now.
It's really hard for me to imagine anyone having a tussle with you, btw. Glad to
know you're human. - Hugs, Linda


Fm:  Mike M. To:  Linda W.

Dear Linda:

I'm glad that you've managed to "kiss and make up" with your friend!  Even though
you didn't know what precipitated the whole incident, at least it's been rendered
moot by the reconciliation. Perhaps now that things are back on course, you will
get the chance to explore the past history and figure out just went awry.

"Glad to know you're human." <blush>  You're such a flatterer <hug!>. Well, it
really wasn't a tussle ... I guess you could call it an indiscretion or a
misjudgment on my part. Hopefully, my friend and I can put it to rest and get
back to being friends again <smile>.

(Of course, you managed to induce me into letting it slip that I'm actually in
this scenario as we speak. And after I had gone through such pains to make my
reply very general and vague. Sneaky, sneaky! <giggle>)

BTW, thanks for the compliment!

Hugs, Mike

Fm:  Linda W. To:  Mike M.

Mike, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to induce you to let something slip. <G>  One of
the big problems with a message thread like this is that everyone is probably
following it to see if they can figure out who is mad at whom (or has been in the
past) and why. Some days, this place makes me feel like I'm back in high school.
<smile>  It's no wonder I sometimes act that way, too. - Linda


Fm:  Mike M. To:  Linda W.

Dear Linda:

I was just teasing you, of course <smile!>. I really did want to talk about that
particular conflict with someone, even if only in very vague terms.

You did bring up another facet of this situation, though, with the observation
about privacy on the message boards. I don't ever talk to any offliners about HSX
stuff, so when this particular conflict arose, my first inclination was to go to
some of my online friends privately with it. However, I didn't want to disclose
any specifics to anyone as I hadn't yet talked to the other person in the
conflict - but I still felt I had to get it out somehow. So I wrestled with the
notion of saying something here publicly, and wondered if I could be sufficiently
vague about it so as not to arouse curiosities or tip anyone off <grin>.
Hopefully, I've succeeded.

Sometimes it's frustrating to have to dance around like that, but in the
aggregate I think it's worth it. I felt better after unloading (albeit in a
limited way) and got some good insights from my friends here, as always!

Hugs, Mike


Fm:  Linda W. To:  Mike M.

Mike, I've actually had several online relationships that were improved by
discussing problems here in a third person type way. Sometimes it's easier to
explain how we're feeling when we're not saying it directly to the person we're
having the feelings about. Those feelings could be jealousy, anger, neglect or a
lot of others. One of the hardest things for me to deal with has been having a
close online friend drift away. It wasn't until I actually put that hurt into
words that I realized how abandoned I had felt, and how that pain was affecting
my duties online. - Linda


Fm:  Suzanne To:  Mike M.

Mike: I remember offering you an attentive ear back when you were having a
particularly awful online problem, and wishing I could just wave a magic wand and
make it go away. In some cases, it seems that a message online can trigger all
kinds of things in the reader's mind that have little or nothing to do with the
person writing the message. S/he just provided a stimulus to which the reader
responded.

Since I'm so shy and retiring, I never get into online conflicts. I also have a
lovely bridge for sale in Brooklyn, and another that spans the Golden Gate.
<grin>

The people I tend to get into conflicts with are the ones who like to fixate on
one tiny subphrase of a message I wrote while ignoring the rest of what I say.
That really ticks me off. There are also some people who tilt at me because I
seem to represent female authority figures - must be because of my shy and
retiring nature <g>. Sometimes it becomes obvious that I said something that hit
someone in a weird way, and I try to work it out. Other times it's really
apparent that the problem is in the reader's brain, and that my message or action
has been completely misinterpreted. There are some people I just avoid or ignore,
to keep my sanity.

- Suz


Fm:  Mike M. To:  Suzanne

Suz:

Yeah, it's too bad that there is such a dearth of digital magic wands these days
<grin!> ... I could really use one right about now. (Turns out the current
conflict was brought on by a very stupid faux pas on my part, but that's another
long story <sheepish frown>.)

"Shy and retiring," huh?  <smile!>

Misunderstandings can be particularly frustrating, as you had pointed out. Too, I
think that this medium makes those sorts of conflict especially thorny, because
sometimes you have to go round and round with the other person to really get to
the core of the problem ("You said such-and-so, and--" "No, no! That's not what I
meant at all!!  I really meant to say--" "But that's not what I got from your
message - it sounded like you said--" and so on.)

I suppose the "best" conflicts are the ones where everything's right out on the
table: "You're completely wrong!" "I disagree wholeheartedly with that!" "I think
you're a jerk because..."  At least you've got something that you can sink your
teeth into, a phrase or an idea against which you can plead your case. <grin!!>

Hugs, Mike


Fm: Rich To:  Mike M.

Mike, Great message - thanks for sharing it! I think that there are lots of
people in your shoes... who hate any disagreements or disputes and who get torn
up about how to respond. Some people struggle alone and figure things out in
their head beforehand, then present an image of confidence. Others invite the
person they're arguing with to join with them in solving the problem. But I think
your experience of guilt and uncertainty is common!

One thing I've found: there are major disputes and issues between me and my SO
that can threaten our future happiness, there are conflicts between myself and my
business associates that threaten my livelihood - these deserve the intense
emotional back-and-forth you're describing. For everything else, I think it can
be *overkill*, and not only makes me miserable and doesn't help, it makes the
other people miserable and can turn the little tiff into something that destroys
a friendship or causes serious career damage.

There's one thing I really can't stand: I know some people feel worried and
insecure about arguments, but what they do is *inflict* their insecurities on
other people as punishment for not being perfect friends. *They* need a lot of
reassurance that their friends still love them, and they wield that need as a
weapon both to get their friends to forgive them, and to punish those friends by
making them feel guilty for the torment caused by the dispute. You know anyone
like that?

Rich


Fm:  Linda W. To: Rich

Rich, You caught me. I was just about to say that I really am compulsive in my
need to feel like people like me. One of the things that the conflict I had
taught me was that not everyone will always like me, no matter how hard I try. I
also learned that I could manage without having everyone like me. In the long
run, I think I grew a lot through the experience. (I also learned several painful
truths about myself, such as the one you just pointed out.) - Linda


Fm: Rich To:  Linda W.

Linda,

Thats something thats really good and useful about this medium, in my opinion.
You can learn a heck of a lot about yourself and others by just being observant
and spending the time and energy to analyze what you say, and how others react.

I've discovered that some of my most strongly held prejudices about women are a
lot of hogwash through HSX. It has been quite an education!

Rich


Fm: Justin To:  Kate

Kate, Personally, I have only had to deal with 2 little on-line conflicts in my
entire on-line "career", but I sure have a little input on this one...

What happens?  Well, think about it. Shouting gets little more accomplished than
creating a stressful enviornment, not much for resolution at all. Avoiding where
the person "hangs out" is nothing more than avoiding the problem itself, which,
in my humble opinion, is unhealthy and does nothing for resolving the situation
as one must resolve these things face to face sooner or later if you wish to
continue to speak to the person. It's not all that different in that regard, at
least.

Now, being here, well, you are limited only to the most mature means of
resolution, and that is communication. People shy away from this...I have learned
not to do this either here or in the "real" world. We find other ways which make
us "feel" that it is resolved, when in reality, we're just burying it...chance it
that this happens outside the mainframes - what would you do? Is that mature -
letting the air out of their tires or screaming at them and having a full fledged
arguement?  The medium FORCES maturity.

And quitting a system because of one person? That's not a mature approach,
either... think about it... we have 600,000 PLUS people here and one is going to
mess it up for you? That's just like letting one love that did not work cause you
to never look again because you have a concept that is trashed out because of
it... the key is communication to resolution.

You have to keep a level head, and keep it mature...and IN PRIVATE. Would you
discuss this at the mall or your favorite resturant, or would you find somewhere
else?  Knowing the problem with this because I am a local BBS sysop helps a
little... anyway, there's my 2 cents. - Hugs, Justin


Fm:  Kate To: Justin

(Crediting $.02 to Justin's account)

Justin, you have some very good points. Obviously leaving would not be a mature
reaction and that is not what I did. But that is what I FELT like.

Are you suggesting that all conflicts be taken to private Email?   That is a
thought but what about the conflict inherent in the heated discussions
themselves.

Do you do anything (as a BBS sysop) when you see two people going at it?

I think communication CAN be a mature way of handling things. On the other hnd
I've seen dome pretty immature communications (grin)

-Kate-


Fm: Justin To:  Kate

Kate,

(I did not see that $.02 usage credit in my billing detail <g>)

I would guess that there would be some conflicts inherent in heated discussions
that could be settled in public. In that case, however, it is necessary to
maintain a little civility in doing so as everyone and anyone can read what
you're saying. This would bring me to another point: there are two types of
conflicts - conflict of ideals and conflict of personality. In the former case,
which is all too common here, many people just take this too personally. No two
people will have exactly the same ideas, and that shouldn't be anyone's personal
problem.

But in the case of conflict of personalities, I would have to say that is a
private matter and should be dealt with in private - judgement calls must be made
in both cases as to whether something has gone far enough - if not by the
conflicting parties, then by those in authority.

I don't allow any form of public conflict on my BBS. It is not healthy for that
to be happening on a small system when there are so many others around to call. I
do warn people, and have removed a user who was upsetting all the male users so
badly that we were losing 2 users a week (on a base of 115) to her conflicts with
them. We also have had occasion to regulate PRIVATE conflicts as well (BBS
software allows the reading of mail to top level staffers only, but it is
allowed) - the motto is that people are there to ENJOY themselves, not get bashed
up like that. So it's controlled.

Communication CAN be mature - you are correct. It all depends on the willingness
of the two parties to resolve the situation.

- Hugs, Justin


Fm:  Carol H. To:  Kate

Kate, I find it best to confront the person who is bothering me right away before
the original exchange is forgotten. I'm more inclined to face off with someone
than avoid them;  I'd rather scream and yell for fifteen minutes and get it over
with than be passive/aggressive about it. I guess my pet peeve is people who are
annoyed with me who - instead of saying so directly to me - use the gossip
grapevine to air their feelings. It's something I try not to do, though I'm not
perfect about it either.


Fm:  Kate To:  Carol H.

Good point about the gossip. But have you ever asked someone about an exchange to
get a third opinion on whether you were taking somehting wrong. I have done that
before. Sometimes I take something really personal that on second, third...
fifteenth (g) reading I realize was not meant the way I took it. Another person
can sometimes point out my inappropriate reaction.

-Kate-

Fm:  Carol H. To:  Kate

Kate, I see your point about asking for a third opinion on a conflict. My new
policy on dealing with online conflicts is to ask another person--but someone who
is not a part of the HSX community. For example, I had a bad feeling about
someone I'd be friendly with online but I couldn't pin down exactly what was
bothering me. I consulted with a non-CIS using friend about it, figured out the
problem and confronted the online person about it. It ended with a successful
resolution.

Gossip can be useful: if I meet someone new then hear through the grapevine that
he/she is crazy or dangerous then I will proceed with greater caution. The
problem is when an old grudge causes someone to badmouth someone else, marring
that person's reputation for the long term. If I feel uncomfortable about the way
someone is treating me I trust that gut feeling.


Fm:  Mike D. To:  Kate

Dear Kate,

I can't really say I've ever had a conflict with someone online. However, there
have been irritating people and I just use the /squelch command to simply erase
them from the face of my monitor.

-- Mike D.


Fm: James To:  Kate

Kate, There are a lot of postings on here that I have to decide whether I am
going to contribute something constructive, or am I going to start a
furniture-smashing fight (which, I have had the unfortunate displeasure to
witness a few months ago).

If I see a posting representing someone's opinion that I disagree with, I think
twice (usually) about answering it. For example, if the ex-Governor of Alabama
George Wallace posting his feelings on racial and religious qualities of people,
I probably would not respond. My only two possible responses would be: 1) You
should change your mind because you are wrong; or 2) I understand how you feel, I
feel like...

I really don't think either response will effect any change in the person posting
an opinion that is contrary to mine, so why bother. Sometimes I just hope the
thread ends soon. If it doesn't, I'll put my two cents worth in like I did during
the furniture-smashing fight. I got figuratively smacked a few times, but
eventually everyone picked up their toys and went back to play in their own yards
(smile). james k.


Fm:  Kate To: James

James, I sometimes have a similar reaction to some threads. There was a posting
about 2 weeks ago that when I read it I wondered if that person 1) was being
serious, 2) could possibly have graduated from 5th grade and 3) did he live near
me. I try to be supportive and respecting of divergence of opinios but sometimes
I want to smash them with a chair (grin)

-Kate-

Fm: James To:  Kate

Kate,

I am not into furniture smashing, but I do put my forehead on my hand, moan a
little bit, consider just for a second if I should even dignify the posting with
a response, and then decide not to.

God forbid it should ever develop into a thread!

Now on the other hand... Flipping my own coin over here before someone else
does....

We do want everyone to post on these boards, and not everyone thinks like me
(thankfully) (g).

james k.


Fm:  Carol H. To: James

James, You spoke my thoughts exactly: sometimes it's not worth dignifying
someone's posting with a response. When I'm having a message board conversation
with someone that turns into an argument I take into consideration whether it's
worth getting my blood pressure up over the subject. If the disagreement is over
what's the best brand of ketchup I'll just let it drop. Also, if someone is
trying to convince me of their point of view by distorting what I said or by
making insulting comments I'm not going to invest myself any further. Seems to me
at that point it's about personalities rather than discussion topics.

Fm: James To:  Carol H.

Carol:

I have found that most serious arguments occur on these boards when entire
universes of people are classified and compared. For examples, Most men are
like..., or Women really like...

james .k


Fm:  Kate To: James

James, do you think that you can really change anyone's mind online? I have a
saying... People dont' change their opinion, they just rearrange their
prejudices. Am I wrong... do people really change or do we just use this as a
forum to expound our ideas? Anyone?  Can you really change ideas?

-Kate-


Fm: James To:  Kate

Kate: You just gave a great example of classifying people as acting the same as a
group, sometimes called stereotyping (smile).

True some people don't ever change. That's their right not to change. But I have
made changes in myself based upon communications in these boards.

Of course, I can't remember posting anything that a majority of the people here
would take offense to either (g).

james k.


Fm: David To:  Kate

Kate, I believe that people can really change. I look to myself for the example.
There are many things I have changed about myself over the last 20 years. I don't
think I have ever changed anyone else's opinion, though. When someone else's
opinion changed, they changed it themselves. There have been times when I would
like to have thought that the information I provided them was instrumental in
their changing their minds.

- David M.